Late-Night Talk: Katie Rees, PhD. Personalised Nutrition Through Genetics And Coaching

Katie Rees, welcome. It's a pleasure to meet you. And we've we've met. We've met already. But now officially sitting. Down here. Having a conversation about sports science and sports and your PhD and what you've been doing with bio relevant. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It's a real pleasure to be here. Like you said, yeah, we met a few weeks back at a networking evening, but it's brilliant to meet up and get on your podcast again, sister, lovely to meet you. Yeah. It's my pleasure as well. Are you, will you meet, will you go again eventually? Because they, yes, I think they're going doing this regularly. Yeah, I think it's a monthly thing for the viewers. It's the Barclays networking event at Tram Shed in Swansea. Definitely recommend. Yet to meet a lot of like minded people, but yeah, once everything starts to like calm down over the summer I'll definitely be going back again for sure. No, I'm sure. I'm sure I will try to go as well just to distribute maybe some Flyers or just like talking about and trying to get some ways of obtaining some funding in the future as well and then getting getting more guests. Absolutely brilliant. It, it is a brilliant, a brilliant gathering and unexpected people you may find and it's, it's so great. It is a great thing. So. So one of the things I've noticed this morning is that you were hosting and speaking at Evolved Training Club. So you was literally at a gym and then spreading your spreading your mission. How was that? Was it? Was it in the morning? It was yesterday afternoon, yesterday afternoon, OK, yeah, at Evolved Training Club and it was absolutely incredible. And so again, it's that like minded people who, you know, want to work out in community, work out the like minded people and are interested about their health. And so for me it was a no brainer. And shout out to Darren at Evolve. Incredible guy. And yeah, so that was yesterday. And yeah, I spoke for about 45 minutes and then did a little Q&A for their members afterwards as well. So it's it's brilliant and I love it. So this this was a your second corporate talk or something like that because you had that one before. Yes, yes. So it's my second official one after my kind of PhD. So, second Talkers, Doctor Reese, it's pretty cool. Now you can put the title Doctor, as you said once and. Absolutely, this is. Like great, but are you still doing the corrections or? No. So I'm all done. All done. Yeah. So yeah, my vivor was 13th of May, had a couple of Corrections to do, submitted them and graduate literally one week today. Oh wow. So that was quite fast. That was quite quick. Turn around for sure. But yeah, it was, yeah, very minor amendments and that, yeah, really, really grateful and loved the journey. And I'm sure we'll get on to that in a little bit as well. Yeah. And and this is because we've loved the journey. Would you like to share with us how you've built that journey and in in deciding to study APHD? Was it in genetics? Yes, yes, it is biomedical sciences specialising in genetics. Yeah, absolutely. So I think my kind of story started long before I even knew really what genetics was. So like growing up, I think very formative years, like maybe like four or five, when you like when you go to primary school and say what do you want to be when you grow up? I always wanted to be a scientist and I always wanted to be like in a coat finding cures for diseases. And that's like one of my first kind of memories as childhood is what I wanted to be. So it's very surreal now growing up having done the research, like being adopted research, like it's incredible. But yeah, growing up as very much fascinated how different people could live very seemingly similar lives, yet completely different health outcomes. So especially as an athlete in the pool, we would train maybe like 15 to 20 of us all together, and we'd have the same training output, but we would have different foods, sleep the same hours, have very similar foods, yet recover completely differently. And someone would get an incredible performance and someone would be not so great and be like, what was the thing that made them different? So I was always like a curious mind and always wanted to know why. And that was across like every aspect of my being really. It was like, why do I have to do this in school? Why did I have to do that in training? And it wasn't like that rebellious streak. It was that curious mind. So I knew like long before I even went to uni that I wanted to do a PhD and be a, a researcher and find those answers. So yeah, playing into my curious mind, I think. Well, so it's, it's quite an interesting background that you that you share because most of us are going to into university. They don't know what they do. Majority of us don't don't know what to do with the degree. But having that, this clear mindset of OK, I'm going, I want to go to university step by step, but I'm having in my mind that I want to do a PhD and especially in this field and asking why the why having these types of physical exercises and how and how it affects our metabolism. And there's different ways and it's different ways of understanding our human body, especially when doing physical activity. And nowadays we've loads and loads of technology and information about our bodies, consultations, private coaching and everything's going to. Be Absolutely. Face to face online and going into technology. So that's what where you've decided to establish Bio Elevate. Your core, the core business. And does it matches with with your PhD? Was it something was you had in in mind already? When you. When you went to do your PhD. So I always knew that my purpose and passion would be helping people. I just didn't know kind of what sector, what avenue I would be LED down and what would fulfill that purpose. But I always knew I was passionate about health. I was passionate about people. So as I went through my PhD journey, I kind of, I had a seed planted with our medical system that I wanted it to be prevention rather than cure it. And I think when we take a preventative lens on disease, rather than kind of thinking, oh, it's too late, we have to cure it. That's a really powerful shift. And I think it would ease kind of the burden of still health in our communities and our population if we took a proactive approach to health rather than reactive. So having that as like a passion is like a passion project. And then doing my PhD in genetics and understanding the role of information and information being the root cause of many diseases. And it's kind of marrying up what I'm passionate about, what my mind is good at. And there was definitely a seed planted right back at the start. And I always tell people this, that I had the seed back in 2022, just probably just after COVID. And because it impacted so many people worldwide. And again, that curious nature of mine was just why it can't just be an illness or a disease or a virus that impacts some and not the other. Like, why is that So? Yeah, I think it was a little seed that planted way back when. And then bit of nurturing, bit of watering, bit of admin behind the scenes. You build a website, you start telling people and naturally this kind of health coach or coaching role or talk a speaker just kind of holds you into who you are today. And here I am. And here you are and then sharing about sharing about the mission of bio relevant in helping people and trying to find, I mean their own milestones and they just need to have that that little boost and extra motivation for them to find what they actually want. How can they improve their bodies exactly? Was it it something that having your background and your passion for sports, was that something also give that extra boost? And how did you help yourself to where you were right now and then helping other people by by awakening that curious mind you still have about the why. And still why? Absolutely. I think with sport, we, we as athletes have that inner drive to find that next 1%. And at the very, very top level, at international elite level, it is a game of 1%. And if everyone does the same thing you should, everyone should get the same outcome. So you have to fine tune the other pillars that support you as a human and as an athlete. And that looks like nutrition, the mental, psychological side of sport, which is really, really powerful, that you sleep. The sleep is the most regenerative, restorative aspect of an athlete. And if you disrespect it, you're not going to get the performance on the field or in the pool that you're working hard towards. And obviously you've got the training, you've got the physical aspect of it. And as a swimmer, it's not just what I do in the pool, it's how I support my body on land before getting in the water afterwards. The the pre pool prep time, the warm up time and the mobility in the stretching side of things afterwards, but also the strength and conditioning. So there's so many pillars even within just exercise and that pillar which influence the performance. And one of them is our genome or genetics. Fundamentally, what does our blueprint look like? Are we more catered to be an endurance athlete or a power strength athlete? Does my training reflect that and is am I working in alignment with my genome or against it? Am I maximizing my genetic potential? And that's where the game of 1% is so important. I think any athletes listening to this, it is a no brainer because the more we understand and learn about our biology, the more we can fine tune our systems to get a better output. So I think having gone through my own journey and getting my own genome read and understanding more about my own biology, I was able to kind of interpret, put a plan of action together and come out the other side and see those benefits in my sport. But not just in performance side of things. The mental clarity, the brain fog feeling actually refreshed and restored, waking up in the morning, eating the right things to actually fuel you, not put you in that afternoon slump. And there's so many, there's so many things. And yeah, genetics is just one pillar of a whole. It's like one piece of a jigsaw puzzle. And there's so many others that create that beautiful image at the end. But I think genetics is one that people should really look at and consider. And I think having this consultation of many people specialized in genetics can give can give that help by. Saying. I have as well. Genetics is important and it does matter and contributes for the development of the of the human being. But also, I like the fact that having healthy habits and trying to come to getting used to those habits would be an extra for that development, that genome, that genome development and many. People doesn't. Seem to have to maybe challenge those that that that their their current habits into new ones and it seems there's a lack of that. Yeah, absolutely. So I think with with any of my coaching clients, the lifestyle and like habit integration is something that comes as standard. Because there is no point in me putting together and kind of working with a client to create this perfect kind of bespoke plan of action of like lifestyle, movement, meditation, breath work and nutrition and then just hand it to them when their lifestyle doesn't allow for that to happen. And as you said, it's that integration of habits, creating new habits and to make it align with their current life so that it's achievable. I think that's a big gap. And there's a lot of noise in the nutrition space. And it's like, don't eat this, eat this, go carnival, don't eat carnival, eat plants, go vegan. There's so much noise. And I think the question that most people ask is what's the best diet? When actually that question is wrong to start with. It's what's the best diet for me. And I think that like personalized health approach, when you start going down like that personalized health, personalized medicine route, it is so, so powerful and it's incredible. And yeah. Wow, now I'm now I'm more curious about about the diet exactly essentially. And but you we can talk about this a bit a bit more. And I do wonder as well if did you have any case studies during your dissertation that also helped helped you to, to bio elevate and then we can get to the other to the other side. Yeah, yeah. We'll maybe save that one for the for the PhD talk, my thesis talk. It was a big project. Oh OK, could just summarize it. Are you able to it? Yeah, so my my PhD was a collaborative project with Cardiff Metropolitan Uni and come to our Morgano Cath board. So I had, I think my total cohort was 192 individuals from kind of this Cardiff and surrounding areas. And geographically I had I think probably 30% from Cardiff Met and then 70% from Kuntaf. So I think 30% of the cohort from Cardiff Met were kind of your healthy staff or students. And then the 70% were kind of from a hostile environment. So they had been recruited when they were already in hospital. So they were more of the diseased or I'll and participant side of things. So I didn't have any direct case studies because the, it was very much if I met with them face to face for a consultation, they became a number in the study rather than a person that I could, you know, utilize as a client and become friends or future clients. So it's very much like once I'd met them and, you know, sat down and consulted with them, it was right. Joe Bloggs, you are now a person in this study. You are sample 001 that dissonance. Then you know, you have to have it. So there's no bias. There's there's none of that going on. But I think the what underpins my passion and the project with Kuntaf and my PhD and what I'm doing now is bio elevate is that passion and purpose to help serve and help people and find those answers. Listen to the biology and understand why and how we can improve it and make it better. So that's the thing that underpins it. So no like case studies necessary the transfer, but it was that underpinning message that I want to help people and finding that path to do so. And that would start with this wrong question, as you said, the what's the best diet? I do wonder how many clients that you had so far asking the same question. I think a lot of them have that in the back of their mind, or they've experienced that frustration and they've seen this noise on Instagram or followed some influencers who are promoting one style or the other. But everyone is right in their domain if it works for their biology. But I think when you start asking what's the best diet for me, what's the best diet for my lifestyle, for my outputs that I need, that's where the magic happens. But a lot of my clients do come to me quite frustrated and quite confused or uncertain in what would work best for them. And that's where having that kind of evidence, science based or science allowed approach is super powerful because your, your genetics, your genome will indicate if you can metabolize fats or carbs or proteins better. So the macro nutrient little like 40-30 twenty split or you know that that varies a lot person to person and what output is required. But that macronutrient wheel will change subtly from person to person depends on what your genetics indicate or influences. So even at a fundamental level, the inputs that we eat can change the outputs that we get. And it's it's very much not a case of calories in and calories out and losing weight or gaining weight is so much more than that is the size and an art to it. And that's kind of another message that I love educating my clients about. Is it love food? Enjoy food? Yeah. Without and as you said, it's enjoying enjoying actually food. I mean the the the the real food, you know, that resists against this ultra processed foods, right? And it's a huge industry. You know we know all of it about that. The products that are heavily salty, heavily greasy, heavily processed, and the cheapest 1 which tries to beat up the steel tries to beat up the most. What would we deem to seem healthy despite the the soil being overwhelmed? Right, but but as you said, it's about enjoying the food but without but I think also without being exaggerating on it and it's having having this balance which it is hard to to find in once many. People. Including this social media slope of plenty of stuff where we constantly get bombarded and with science based. It is, it is a good caller, but they the I wonder if also with the when you have some clients at consulting you at bio elevate when they get I can get these some, so many amount of people saying this thing that, and they say it's science based. And when I'm asking this question under the justification of many, many social media influences, so-called, so to speak, they say they found they found a gap. And I watch this on a video of an interview on on a YouTube channel called fitness FAQs. And he's a great, he's he's a great. He's not a bodybuilder, but he's coming along the same line the either similar lines as you and he's And one of the issues that said that these type of social media influences, they find the gap in the exercises and they amplify it and claim it is science based without having the three plus years of proper training, academic training and gym training. Understand the actual science behind it and how how does that does. It. And I do wonder if you had any clients also Clay talking about something similar around that when complaining when complaining about the the dietary habits. Yeah, I think a lot of my clients come to me after reaching that kind of peak frustration or peak overwhelm or peak uncertainty. And you know, we as a nutritionist, you always have to kind of go back to the the best foundationally, the best diet is yes, one that's evidence based and not just, oh, I've read one article, not even article sometimes. Sometimes you just read something on Instagram and go, yes, that's science based. For me that is not enough. And so the best diet fundamentally is one that's evidence based through lots and lots and lots of research and not just research through rose tinted glasses. You have to look at the negatives and the positives, that complete picture. That's what makes us scientists. So you have to look at when there's evidence based, nutritionally complete, sustainable, enjoyable. And the the one piece where I think is, is my niche and is my calling is being able to tailor all of that to your biology, making it fit with your lifestyle and then align with your goals. That's where the power is. And so I think they, yeah, my clients sometimes come to me with that frustration or uncertainty or overwhelm or so much noise. And I want clarity. And that is, that's what I bring, is that clarity and that certainty and, and just, you know, I'm here to listen to them and hear their frustrations and go find a way forward with them. Sure. And that's where you use a bit of psychology to trying to understand why that that noise influences them. And then you use any sort of methods that. Exactly. Will help them systematically as you said. Systematically. That help them to reach out their goals, but obviously they have to, they will. They would understand that it requires time and patience, which is something that nowadays there's not many people praising for that. Yeah, it's a great skill, to be fair. And that is all about the art of coaching. So I think people often confuse coaching with someone else telling them what to do, and I don't see it that way at all. I think the art of coaching is really listening to that client or that person in front of you and helping them discover what they're truly capable of. Whether that's nutrition, whether that's sport, whether that's a mental mentee situation in uni through their PhD journey, whether it's back in school, That buddy system, it's seeing what's in front of you, that person in front of you and helping them, you know, discover that confidence of what they're truly capable of and giving them the knowledge to support and sometimes their arm around the shoulder to get them there together. That for me is what coaching is and is coaching who that person is in front of you. So that having this this coaching skill that require time and trying to understand your clients, but at the same time your clients understanding you. Absolutely. How can they work together and creating a plan? Absolutely time. And patience. Exactly, exactly. And this. Yeah, I do wonder if they had any clients that they were so fed up and said I can't do this, I'll just quit the program. Maybe, maybe not. You haven't. Yeah, none of my clients so far have quit the program and I hope that that's not something. That's a blessing. That's a. Blessing that, Lewis. So, but yeah, but I do. I do know and I used to go to the gym when I, when I was a teenager, my father was APT and in the space of 20 years, it changed a lot. We didn't have that much technology at the time. I mean, I was still, I was still a kid, but working, working at a gym where my father used to work at. Absolutely. Didn't have any, any technology, I mean that kind of a technology that we that we have nowadays, yeah. And we had we still, they're still relying on personal trainers who cannot, who are also coaching, who are they are also coaches and they coach, they coach the person. And some of them they just didn't adapt. And even with this technology with was so heavily dependent on they still trying to get their foot, the both feet onto a gym or having a private consultation. And some of them they just doing the trace, the pro, the training program, they trying to follow up, Oh, this is cool and all that. But then you have to do it again. Yeah, you have to do this all repeated times. And many people, many clients, they they they just don't grasp it. They just don't grasp the grind, how it takes time because of, as you said, that a lot of noise. And then that keeps frustration even more. And science evolves like the the art of science is literally to see a theory, trial it, disprove it and prove that your theory is right. So failure and being wrong and being proven wrong is a big thing in science. And I think if you've got this like perfect conceptual model that has worked for decades, I would question that because it's either an incredible kind of model that is true and certain. But where certainty infection doesn't exist, I would absolutely question that. And things have to evolve because by nature, by the very nature of who we are as humans, we are evolution. We evolve. So one thing that worked for you as a teenager, a program would work for you then, would not work for you now because your innate being, your body has evolved. And as we age, there are different challenges that present themselves. And yeah, I think there's no what kind of 1 model that is set for you for life. But yeah, I think science coaching is evolutionary and it has to evolve with, you know, with tech, with life, with the person that you're coaching. Yes, no, that's, that's, that's actually true. And and it's great you, you point out it's just keeping reinventing the wheel and trying, just trying to adapt the circumstances. As you said, we keep involving clients also evolve. They need to adapt it in different, different ways. There's the coach, the magic of the coaching. It is like that. It's not having that strict and then nothing changes in their mind, of course, but having that consistent change. And OK, let's reinvent. What are your needs? What are you, what are your needs at and what how can we work together in order to achieve your goals so that I can achieve mine as well? Absolutely. I have fulfilled the the objective of this this this client that was struggling so much in with his for example obesity problems, but now with a proper diet or balanced lifestyle I feel fulfilled as well. Yeah, and it is, it's answering that calling of helping people and that that's my purpose. That's why I'm here. And so I think it's, yes, I'm able to help the client, but that help me by me helping the client, I'm also fulfilling my soul's purpose as well. So it's it's really powerful work. And I'm, I'm really honoured and grateful to have found this kind of niche and make it. And yeah, it's, it's great. I love it. I do. I'd like to ask as well what your clients they had learned from you. What did they learn actually and when, when they had your, when they had their first consultations and then when they started to adhere to your methodologies and saw significant difference, what did they learn from this, from this experience? I think my the one liner is that my clients understand their bodies better than they did an hour before before we met together. So I think when someone works with me, they've obviously presented with their struggles or their symptoms or maybe not at all. Maybe they want to just from baseline be better so they don't always have to come to me in like a diseased or a struggled scenario or state. They could just be that calling for more and that's that's a beautiful place to be in as well. But by the time the client kind of comes on their journey with me, they and you know, I think they would have learned that they biologically, they're all unique. And because of that, health shouldn't be about copying that latest trend or the latest influencer. It's finding what works for you. And I think I, I love educate people about genetics and science and knowing that, you know, knowing your blueprint, it is not your destiny. It's one piece of a much bigger picture. And you know, that also includes the epigenetics of the environment surrounding your genes, which include nutrition, movement, sleep, stress, environment. And these are kind of all the pillars that hold up that building or that, you know, and the choices you make every day. And I think the final thing is that knowing your body can create a lot of trust and support in your body. And I hope that my coaching sounds quite empowering and knowledge becomes power when it's utilized. So I think knowing your blueprint, knowing what nutrition, what sleep habits, what movement, what lifestyle, what stress management you need. I hope that my clients would feel empowered by the end of our working together, knowing that they understand from a deep biological perspective who they are, why they are the way they are and can have the tools, the tool set equipped to move forward with that and with more knowledge and understanding of their biology. Because a lot of people struggle with their kind of gut intuition. Now, I'm a very intuitive person. Me, my mum, my family, we're all very much, we've got a gut sense that's sixth sense. And I've been, I'm grateful, I'm really honoured to have that because I think some people are really in tune and intuitive with their bodies and some are not. And it's listening to your body when it's whispering instead of waiting when it's screaming. And that is something that's learned through kind of exposure and experience to illness in in your life and knowing like when you need to rest, when you need to, it's that innate wisdom that's telling you like push you pull back a little bit, rest, recover. And the ability to listen to your body comes from when you're silenced. So when you have that silent mind, you can listen to what your body's trying to tell you. So I basically empower my clients. We learn the biology and the genetic side of things, but I also empower them to listen to their gut and their intuition. And it's that beautiful kind of craft between, you know, that that soul and that gut intuition and the biology. And it's that pinch that bridge. And yeah, that's, that's me as a coach. And I love it. No, I think that is great that it's more of a holistic approach first. Absolutely right. Absolutely. And then once they once they hear that they start to accommodate new habits. I, I, I I'd assume. Yeah, yeah. Then do you create any training blueprint for them according to their genetics, according to their personality as well? Yeah, So I the one thing I love doing and I the something I love is the art of collaboration. So where my kind of niches is in that genetics that help the comprehensive health markers, bloods, genetics, hair, tissue mineral analysis, learning the data and making the nutrition and the sleep and the lifestyle aspect. Now one part that I do not touch at the moment is the exercise element. So I don't do anything with that program or anything like that, but I do do is Pro is become affiliated with PTS or personal trainers or coaches wherever my client is based. I work. I've got a lot of clients all across UK at the moment and I've got one over in Europe as well. So I would find if they've got already got APT or a member at the gym or a gym membership, sorry, I become affiliated with my spark up that connection, make that relationship and work in collaboration with their support network. Whether they're an athlete with within a team, whether they are your with a person with just a personal trainer or they just have a gym membership. I work with what their life kind of looks like at the moment. I work with their support network and I go, right, this client has this genetic predisposition, which means they would love or they would thrive off doing this, this and this work with me to create this bespoke program. So I'm not actually doing the programming myself, but I'm educating and empowering their P TS and support network to influence their program. So it's very much a collaborative approach and that is where the power is because you're either the power of the team. Oh, sorry, what's that phrase? What's that saying? You're the power of the team is only as strong as the individuals that make it so you're stronger as a team, as a collective than you are on your own. And I love that because if I can partner with the most elite and the most knowledgeable minds across many sectors, the power and the the amount we can help and support our clients who are the main denominator here is increased tenfold. So I love working collaboratively with experts in their fields to best support the client. So I I hope that answered your question. No, no, it's. And it's the art of collaboration. I love it. No, it is. That's the that's the the key element here. We all have to collaborate with each other and you say you with your expertise, trying to trying to understand the client, your clients and then trying to educate them. That's the power of collaboration and using your network is even even more powerful, which we we all need every single time. It's not just because it's a trend or this technological boom that that's been the trend, social media trends. We all still need each other. As you said, as you said, there is a lot of noise and we again, we lost, we losing this skill of patience, also critical thinking and claiming the fucking sources that some of the some of them aren't even scientific sources, but they don't know where they actually come from. It's like putting the source and it's just you don't know. It's that's that's what I do feel about. It's the power of collaboration and especially in this day and age of the gym trend, everyone wants to get shredded, even if they know what that actually means. They might assume, oh, it's shredded as being big as you go to a dictionary. I don't see big here. Yeah, exactly. So I, I, I still, I still baffles me when when talking about gem, everyone's going to say I'm doing a bench press or leg press and says all of that and they still don't know how to do it. Many of them are doing incorrectly, maybe because of the the habits that they have as you, as you said, not having a healthy diet, not tracking their own macros, the sleep and just having the this socialization inside of a gym, which is still it's still, it is still something, it's over there. Just conversate with the person and not having the proper training, not less training and collaboration with personal trainings and he also also and also with yourself. Hopefully you'll get more clients and then. You know then hopefully. Hopefully and more. People I can help, the better, yeah. It's an honor to be part of anyone's coaching journey, you know? Yeah, of course. And obviously with the right, with the right diet, with not the right diet, but the diet that is more appropriate to to the clients without, without having those drinking drinks of what you called it is a it's kind of those milkshakes, but it's not exactly a milkshake, but it's close to it. Oh. The protein shakes. Yes, the I was missing the word. I was missing that. That's the missing the protein shakes every single time. Drinking protein shakes back and forth every single time after after the after a drink for me. It's confusing to be honest with you. I used to well, as I said, I used to work as a, as a teenager and, and doing in my in my early 20s to to mid 20s. I have my own gym, which is in a home and my own equipment and I know what to eat. I know what's went to sleep. I do cheat a little bit honestly, but that's just part of us as human beings. And the now with this trend, as we said, we, we already said the noise keeps influencing people. And unfortunately there is this statistical, this statistics and I saw this at health and fitness business that 31% of the global population, it is inactive or doesn't do any physical activity. And this was this year, Yeah. And I think it increased a bit more over over the over the years. And I said, and I asked you as well, they still confused about exercise, as you said before. And I do wonder, what is that confusion? Aside from social media, what are the sorts of things do you think that confuses people even more? I think there's just a lot of information out there and it's almost information overload or overwhelm And and especially like what you just touched about then about the protein, protein seems to be everywhere. Protein yoghurt, protein coffee, protein cereals. And you know, you have to sit back and strip it back. Like is this all just marketing? Because I think protein is probably one of the best examples of how we can really, you know, you have a really important nutritional message and it become completely distorted. The science, when you strip it back, the science is very, very clear. Protein is essential. Every single cell in your body relies on it. It's, you know, your amino acids, your building blocks are vital for building, repairing, growing muscle, supporting your immune system, producing hormones, enzymes, recovering from exercise. So the message of why protein is important is absolutely correct. But where I think it's become distorted or confused is that we should be treating protein like it's a magic ingredient because it's not, it's not magic. It's not a miracle, but it is essential. And I think when you, you know, when you look at someone's protein intake or dietary habits, it's not like, oh, I have a shake after training, so I've hit my protein target for the day. No Eat protein consistently throughout the day. Exactly And I I also point to the fact that and this is comes from my dad and says the protein it just the most of it. You are consuming water and pasteurized milk. Yeah. I think that is that is a fact that that is true and the protein inside of inside of the of that shake is bet is minimal or maybe slim to none. We don't know. Yeah, yeah. I think it's there's there's a very blurred line between like protein rich food and protein marketed foods. And that I think is probably another topic for another day. And I think for any listeners who are potentially gym goers or on a health kick or a diet at the moment, just because something says high protein doesn't make it an immediately healthy choice. And now some of these products are genuinely useful, but others are kind of that highly processed foods you touched on earlier with by sprinkling extra protein or high protein. It's clever marketing. So I always encourage my clients and anyone really to look beyond the label. What is in that? And on the just on the protein shakes angle, I'm very much a Food First approach nutritionist. So I you know, when I look at someone's macronutrient requirements and needs matching their caloric intake and how much protein is at what percentage of protein makes up the daily calories or intake, I would always. Try and get the protein from natural sources through Whole Foods. So you would never see me prescribe a an artificial protein shake to a client as a go to primary source of protein. That would not happen. So if you're a bio alamic client that would not happen. But there's a caveat to that. As an elite athlete with higher protein demands where you've absolutely trashed your body in a training session and you need that immediate recovery, it's having that knowledge and intuition to go right. I need a carb and a protein source right now to help me kick start that recovery. Sometimes that looks like a banana as your carb source or some apricots with a high protein source, like 2 boiled eggs. But if you sat on poolside smashing down two eggs and a banana, is that optimal when you're going to go home and have your dinner? Probably not. However, there are better sources of kind of your protein powders. So you've got your kind of highly processed and kind of Balkan agents, preservatives, highly kind of processed protein powders. And then you've got your companies or the little companies who are trying to spot the gap, as you said earlier. And there's a brand that I use called Honest ONYST, and they only have six ingredients. So for me that speaks absolute volumes that it's a protein powder that only has six ingredients and they're high quality, organically derived ingredients that are good for your body. No additives, no preservatives, no bulking agents, none of this kind of chemical processed things that are going to inflame your body and make recovery harder. So working with, working in alignment with brands or powders or companies that resonate with your biology, yes, but obviously your beliefs, that's where the magic is. So in answer to your question, first Food First approach always. But where we need to supplement, I always go for your brands, read, be on the label, look what's actually in it. If it's got an ingredient where you can't even pronounce, probably ditch it. And a little like for honest because the guys there are amazing and we're on the same trajectory and that same passion to help people. I was just, I was just chuckling here because you said no, just read the label first. But it's. But the issue is. It's so overcomplicated because. Of absolutely. Because of these specific scientific names or? Yes, it's a chemical derivative, right? It's a chemical derivatives exactly. And this is a kid confused to say. Maybe I don't know what this language means, but I'm going to eat it anyway. Or maybe I just said OK it has foreign language to you, just ditch it. Just yeah, probably don't eat it. And it's it's, it's not just foods. It is not just foods, it's in our healthcare. It's in our like our products like shampoo, conditioner, body wash, lotions. Oh, that, that is another topic for another day. Sun cream with the warmer weather coming into the UK. Look what is in your sun cream And it's yeah, it's, it is not just what we eat. And I always challenge my clients is they say, is this any good? I'm like, would you eat it? Like what? No, I wouldn't eat sun cream. Why would you put it on your skin? Your skin being the biggest, the the biggest organ in the body, the most absorptive, whatever you put on, it'll get through. So if you're going to put on something that is synthetic, full of chemicals, but you wouldn't eat it, wipe it on your skin. And it's that kind of, and that thought pattern that disrupts your habits and go actually, I'm not going to put it on my skin because I wouldn't eat it. I'm going to find a healthier alternative. And that that's the beauty of your health journey because everyone starts their health journey at different points. And some people come to me quite optimised and then I can look in for that 1%. But some people come back, they come to me right at the start of their journey with no knowledge or understanding of any of this and kind of walking them through this journey of, you know, reading the labels on your shampoos or your tin of beans, looking at the preservatives or the hidden chemicals. And it's not about changing everything at once. It's about doing little sustainable changes which over time create a significant impact. And that is like APHD journey and bringing it back in. A little consistent habits, little consistent steps lead you talking across that stage of graduation. Yeah, that's that, that's the and I think that's the beauty of it. And as and as we said patience, I'd say sweet here, clear here. Patience is a virtue and not. Many people, absolutely. Not many people are late not not say people are able to build. It seems they show laziness in building it. And this is happens with as you said with the skin and foods and trying to track what we actually do, what we know about our bodies, right. And so I think having these components and collaborating with people with coaches who are more specialized in these type of things and then it's it's a, it's a good way to meet you meet, meet, meet your goals eventually. Absolutely. And it takes time. It is actually takes time you. See, Patience is a virtue. Yeah, exactly. And you see these like fucking social media. Have you seen these type of social media when they advertise loads and loads and loads of trend trend products? Yeah. What's your thoughts about that and gets it gets people even more confused. Yeah. There's like these these kind of things as well. Oh, I've reached this thing and it's like this trend of the trust me, bro, all kind of all kind of shit. And then. Yeah, is that Jim, bro? Trust me, bro. Yeah. Good. One-on-one on one coaching after doing some pumping iron, after pumping some iron and, and OK, I'm going to do this. Yeah. What do you think? Yeah, that's again that's another aspect of the training and the nutrition where, you know, supplements of any form are very much a secondary kind of tier to what should be laid. Those foundations, which is how well are we sleeping, how well are we eating, how well are we thinking? When those kind of pillars are good structural quality, that's when you identify some of the gaps. And what you said, I think about 30 minutes ago, I don't know if it was 30 minutes ago about the the soil quality. So there's something called the nucleus gap. And so the vegetables that we are growing and harvesting today are not of the same quality and organic chemical makeup that they were, you know, decades ago because the soil quality has changed, the demand has changed, our population requirement has changed and everything is more on demand here. And that puts a stress on the vegetables and on the soil that we are growing, harvesting and consuming. So there's something called the nutrient gap. So the nutrient in a carrot, for example, years and years and years ago, decades ago would be a high nutritional value because it would have taken a longer time non-GMO crop crop. And they're taking a longer time to harvest and grow than what it is today. And that is again evolving evolutionary with the demands of our society. So there is a small settlement gap and you know, your genetics again play an incredible role in this. And for example, one of the one of the genes that we test is the vitamin ageing. And it's your ability to either convert beta carotene or retinol. And it's able to kind of how well are you able to convert beta carotene to retinol. But beta carotene is that colour compound in like broccoli and carrots. The retinol is the performed version that you get from your animals and your animal sources. So if someone cannot convert beta carotene to retinol, then the vegetables that they eat, they're not going to be able, they're all, they'll overwhelm the system. So that's when having a performed retinol supplement or animal sourced intervention first would be better for that client. So your genetics influences your supplement and demand or requirement after you've looked at your Food First approach. And I think with with that goes with any supplements. And I think there's a time and a place for your kind of hormone therapies. If someone is that clinically presenting with a deficiency, A deficit, a disease that requires that stability, absolutely. But I think for your, as you, as you quoted your trust me bro Jim sources who are just looking to be big from a potentially particular point of view or to maximise human performance or maximise human potential. Again, a curious mind. I want to see as big and as powerful as I can be to just test the limits. I would always errand side of caution with anything like that. And I would I'd rather support natural athletes than enhanced. And as an athlete myself, I would never ever dream of going down and enhanced route. And even with like the peptides like BCP 157, the the ones that promote tissue healing and the regenerative, the, the good, the positive peptides, I wouldn't entertain it because in my sport that stands and that is seen as an unfair advantage. Therefore you control your controllables. Look at your blueprint, the nutrition, the sleep, the movement, the input to our minds control that before kind of looking externally. So control your internal environment before looking external. Yeah, Have you? Because you said you were elite, elite athlete. What type of sport did you did you practice? Or you? I'm a competitive swimmer, OK, Competitive swimmer. So I've competed for Wales as a junior for about 7 years, seven or eight years and I'm still a competing now. You're preparing yourself for the for the Olympics. Probably not. That's a bit that that's kind of your misconception. Like the the only goal is the Olympics, but I think it's like only the top 1% or maybe even less of that of someone's sport will actually ever get to the Olympics. It's a very small finite elite margin of people who will get there. But you know, there are other kind of competitions. It's like the Commonwealth Games. A lot of my team mates are going out to up to Glasgow, sorry next month or this month. The Commonwealth. The Commonwealth Games, yeah. So it's Commonwealth, it's Europeans, there's worlds and there's British competitions here. But also that's the beauty of sport is that it can take you all over the world and you know, the swimming is the same. It is just a pool in another country and your ability to get on the block and perform because you're passionate about it, that doesn't change. Yeah. So I think Olympics is probably not on my card, but being the best athlete I can be in whatever kind of domain that takes me to, Absolutely yes. No, but that's the that's the beauty of it. As you said, it's sports is just the Olympics. That's what we see on TV. There's. Yeah, exactly. European Championships, the regional championships, World Championships, all sorts of sports. We got to start low something. We got to start somewhere low somewhere, yeah. And then just get into that exactly. And I do because you you're a competitive swimmer. Have you watched the enhanced Games? Yes, yeah, I did. There's. There was a lot of kind of stigma attached to it and one of my good friends, Alex, based in Loughborough University, Doctor Alex, he's currently doing research on kind of that social stigma around it and you know, did it change pre and post enhanced games? So again, shout out to Alex. He's doing a great job up there. I want to have his contact, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'll get you on. Absolutely, Absolutely. I'd love to. Know I'd love. To know, I'd love to know because I started to interrupt Katie because I saw this video is a very critical video. It's on a YouTube channel called Moon and he was talking about enhanced games. This this was the most clownish event ever, ever made. And it was, it was a sort of an advertising enhanced drugs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think the my personal opinion and professional opinion, they are the same because I'm authentic to myself and I'm true to myself. And when you look at the enhanced games, you know, your performance enhancing drugs, steroids, TRT, stuff like that, it's your again, it's the game of 1%, but an even further perspective and even further angle. And on one hand, I was like the scientist again, you are curious as a being to see that how much can I push my body using the science, using the technology that is, you know, available to us today, How far can I actually push my body? But as a sports person, that does not align with me because I'd rather see how much I can push my body within a clean, like a clean sport environment. That means like none of those performance enhancing drugs, no steroids, nothing like that. So you've got kind of the interest in human performance or the enhanced human performance. And then you've got the what is true to our sport. I know there are a lot of different sports. I know Suman is one of them. I think they had like the weightlifting running and actually, yeah, it's. I think they were doing it just deadlift. It wasn't power lift, it wasn't powerlifting. It was just, I think it was just swimming was one of them. Yeah, swimming was one of them. Power. Sorry, dead lifting and then the 100m run and I think that was and I think there was another ones too, but I don't remember so. Yeah. And I think the, the philosophy for me is always like protecting clean sport, sleep, nutrition, training, recovery, stress management. There is enough in those pillars to influence a great performance without kind of adding on the, you know, the performance enhancing side of things which are illegal in in today's sport. I think it is about protecting that because you've got to out like look at the benefits and the costs because biology is one of those trade-offs. And all of these athletes who've gone down the enhanced games, you know, you don't know the impact that those drugs will have on your system long term. So it's like you are allowing your body to become a test subject. And I think more than that in elite sport is about fairness. And sport only has that true integrity and true meaning. If athletes come under the same rules, compete under the same rules, and if they're prohibited in a sport, I think those rules should be respected. But I also know that the enhanced games are operating on their own rules and they are kind of distinct. They're in a distinctive pool. They'll not be allowed to compete back in day-to-day competitions. Now saying that, there's so many angles and opinions and views that need to be considered. So I actually, I don't have a final answer for what do I think of it. So I think a lot about it, but I haven't got a conclusive answer yet. And there's also, there's, there's people, there's people behind those athletes, behind those performances, you know, and for example, Ben Proud, one of our British summers, he was hoping to break the 50 freestyle world record to win that £1,000,000. And that would be far more than he ever ever generated as one of our most successful British athletes for decades, for years. So that that pull, I think Cody Miller, one of the breaststrokes from America, he won two events. So he made £500,000 or $500,000. So that is kind of life changing money that he never earned being one of the top athletes in his field. So when there's a kind of financial pull to support their family, to support their, you know, their generational wealth, to support, you know, how they exist and function in today's society from just being good at their sport. There is a poll, and I understand that poll, but I don't think that is enough for me to warrant what happens on a biological level. The fairness, the equality in sport, how sport is viewed from the outside, and also the narrative of the company who's running it like enhanced games. Because beforehand I didn't really get the vibe that you'd be able to buy the supplements that they were on. But afterwards it was a big market and pushed me like you can recover like us take this. And he's like, whoa, like different agenda, almost a hidden agenda, you know, But I'm, I'm going to pause there. I want to. So I'll put you in touch with Alex from Luffrey Uni. I think he's a doctor or professor at Luffrey Uni Incredible and is currently doing research on this. So again, Alex, you got a little shagged out from me. We do a lot of competing masters competing together in swimming and he loves this sort of stuff. So I'm going to pause there. I'm going to pause and I'll hopefully get Alex on so you can continue this with him. No, definitely I would get Alex on on the show and they will be really interesting to know about how this enhance enhanced drugs really work in the in the in the elite competitive worlds. Absolutely. It's not my area. It's not my area. No, it's, it's really cool though, to to know about this and know about how, again, as was throughout the talk, how we know our bodies and how can we progress without harming ourselves. I think that's. The bit of. It collaboration is essential, having the mindset is essential, and patience becomes a virtue. Absolutely. Bringing it right back. Bringing up, it's a, it's a, it's a, a loop, and it's becoming a loop I guess. For sure, for sure. And another thing is, I'd like to ask as well, because you've been featured in BBC Radio Wheels. I saw it on a story on Instagram. How was it? I tried to look for it. Yeah, I wasn't able to find it. But how was the experience for? I I can drop you the link later. I think it's on BBC Sounds for I think a month. So there's still time. But yeah, so I think it was last week or the week before, yeah. One of the researchers at BBC Wales contacted me asking to basically come on air and discuss my opinions or my expertise on longevity in the workplace. And they, there's a study that has just been announced that movement in kind of a corporate work setting and improves longevity and reduces disease risk. Because if you think that if we're sat down at an office or a desk for 9:00 to 5:00 and we don't really take an active lunch, so we don't step away from our desk and that sort of thing. We're kind of stuck in this little set seated position like a shrimp. And our kind of posture goes and our hip practice lighten up and structurally that's not great. From a postural perspective, that's not great. So the study, I can drop the link for your, the bit on your podcast, I can drop it there. And research has showed that kind of those active movement, I think they call them movement bites, something like that. Literally get up and walk for like I think 5 or 10 minutes or maybe even exercise bites. So he's either getting up and walk for about 10 minutes. 15 minutes every couple of hours is good for your longevity, good for your health and reduces the risk of disease later down the line. So again, I won't go too much in on that study. I'll drop you the link. But my time on BBC Radio Wales was incredible. It lasted about 3 minutes and I had my 3 minutes of fame as they say. And again, that was another act in as Doctor Katie Reese. And so there's an opportunity to talk about my passions, talk about bioalivate and ultimately raising awareness of the risk of sitting at your desk or desk rotting, as they say. And you know, can we get a walking pad? So I'm actually sat down for this podcast, but normally I would be on my walking pad. So under this I've got a yoga ball and beneath it I've got my walking pad and a standing desk. So when I'm working I'm very rarely sat down. Still I'm very much walking because I actually find it. Why is my brain, it gets my brain going as well. So I've got a walk in pad, I've got a standing desk. So I sit and stand. I don't have a desk chair, I've got a yoga ball. And again, they are little kind of tips and tricks to help support your biology and your being. And that's what we talked about very, very briefly on BBC Radio Wheels and it was amazing. It's an honour to be asked. I'll maybe buy a yoga ball and then start to sit down because this, this chair I'm sitting on right now is is needs to be retired. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, one of these, you know. Oh yes, I know, I know the the ball. I love it. It works a lot with the flexibility of the back he used to do when I was. Actually like. Doing like the stretches and laterals. Absolutely. When you work and you kind of just on the ball just dancing about and it's, it's fantastic because you're working with your natural lumbar curvature and you know, if you're sat like this, you'll feel it instantly and the ball kind of helps correct it. Something that was advised by a chiropractor chiropractic friend of mine. So it's yeah, brilliant. I'll. Have a look. Yeah, recommend. Highly recommend. I'll. Have a look then. I want to buy a ball now. Yeah, brilliant. It's ask the one thing you take away. Lewis, let's. Go no, no, I'll I'll definitely buy. I actually like again, I love exercising. Just thanks thanks to props to my family though so. Absolutely. That's the thing and another thing as well that I noticed that you had your first corporate workshop about your about your company and it was 48 hours after you defended your thesis. Yeah. It was, how was it? How was it? How were those 48 hours you had? To. Split the joy of after like what 2 plus hours of of of the fever and then presenting your your bio elevate afterwards how was. It, yeah, it was. It was quite a blur to be honest, that looking back now, the whole kind of whirlwind from the Wednesday to the Friday was a blur, but it was incredible. And so my father was on a Wednesday and then on Friday morning I was back in Cardiff in there like professional gears, my first outing as doctor Katie Reese, speaking to a team of dental practitioners about health and longevity in the workplace, how to tailor their nutrition and how to and kind of coordinate their work Diaries, which would align best with their kind of peaks and troughs of energy in the day. And actually speaking to the management of like changing up their work diary so that the harder or more thought provoking work comes in the morning and then the less thought demanding work comes in the afternoon or evening. That's to suit their energy. And so we did like a whole host on like nutrition, sleep, lifestyle, the importance of it, actionable tips and insights again. So yeah, that was on the Friday, I think Friday morning, to be honest, off the back of my afternoon Viva on the Wednesday. And yeah, as you said, it was an absolute blue. It was a blue. But yeah, I, I loved it. I loved it. So now as Doctor Katie Rees and passing the Viva with a successful rate and then presenting your Bio Elevate business, I mean, it's just the creep of the crop. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's, I think the, the Viber itself was like a huge moment. And the PhD is not just like the three or four years, it's like the it's the culmination of everything that led you there. It's like the studying, the sacrifices, thousands if not hundreds of thousands of hours in the labs and weekends writing, rewriting, deleting chapters. I know, but you know the score. So I think I absolutely loved my Viva. It's quite a controversial opinion. I loved it. And if I could do that again, I absolutely would. And I, you know, credit to my external, internal examiners, Rachel Evans, perhaps Rachel Adams and Claire Kelly. So I literally dropped them. So don't Doctor Rachel Evans, they are incredible and they actually fostered such a nurturing and supportive environment that allowed me to flourish. And that's where when you kind of on your PhD journey, when you're looking at experts or expert minds in those fields, like who do you want on your exam board? Start thinking of it early because actually they say never to meet your idols. But Prof Rachel Evans is absolutely incredible and is a leader in our field of long COVID and, and longer research. And it was incredible to be sat the other side of the table picking her brains out where her research is going. And I, I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And I rehearsed beforehand. I did practice questions and answers, but you know, I was very much geared up ready to go in because I knew my stuff. Ultimately, we know our research better than anyone else. But when I was in there, I just, I absolutely loved it. I absolutely loved it. And afterwards I think myself and my family, we went for like a celebratory meal and that evening, so I saw my partner, I saw my parents and my Gran and it was just incredible. And then literally reset on the Thursday, go back to training, be all normal. And then Friday morning, first acting as Doctor Reese. So it was, it felt actually very symbolic. It felt like, you know, leaving academia and entering the real world, sharing that knowledge and passion, which is exactly what I had hoped. So I think it was very symbolic and it's very true to who I am. I'm very much 100 mile an hour girl over and over again. And yeah, it was, it was brilliant and I loved it and I would do it all over again. Yeah. I think it is once in a lifetime and unless you want to do a second PhD of. Course, maybe I wouldn't rule it out. I wouldn't rule it out too. And I think these are, these are the tiniest. Many people think this is the tiniest moment. This is actually big. And as you said, I would probably do the PhD Viva again because I had so much fun as well. Yeah, in treating an academic debate as if I was having a coffee chat with someone and having a conversation talking about the research, talking about the tiniest things that you might not even imagining the examiner would ask you. But at the same time you have to come up, coming up with something. I know this, but it's so difficult to delve into it that requires more than three hours to to explain this. Yeah, absolutely. And. I think, and I think the examiners expect us to know a lot of our of our research, which is a fair option because we've know, we know that we know it a lot back and forth and they also want to see us thrive. Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the the myths to debunk is that your virus there to catch you out. It's not it's to allow you to flourish and ask you the right questions, to engage that passion, that purpose, that curiosity to bring the best out in you. And you shouldn't enjoy the Viber. So I know a lot of people didn't and they hated it and they were very much anxious and nervous beforehand and hated it. But I I can only speak from personal experience and I loved it. It's. A different personal experience I I I really enjoyed it and I said I was a bit nervous, but at the same time just kept calm. I even I even I even had a chat with the chair and the internal examiner and they were the they are the nicest persons ever and they're OK now I'm more relaxed and this is going to have they asked me as well. Are you nervous? No, I feel excited. A bit nervous, yes, but just. Yeah. And I think nerves are great coming from that athlete background. I know if I'm not nervous before a race, I have to do I care enough about the outcome. So I think before my vibe, I was definitely, I was nervous. And but again, that nerves, our excitement, the excitement outweigh the anxiety. And you're able to kind of channel that nerves into a kind of a positive influence and that positive purpose. And yeah, your nerves, they show that you care about it. So if you didn't, there'd be no point in doing it. You. Didn't even own point any like the same thing when going to going to a swimming competition. Also when I was a kid I used to go to my karate competitions. I was nervous as well. Lose or win. I mean it was just part of the experience. Absolutely right. So it's just treating not treating the Viva as a competition, but also as a way of showcasing your research and experience the moment that you will have, which will be again once in a lifetime unless you want to do a second PhD, but. Yeah, I wouldn't write it off. I don't know if the second PhD will be will be on the cards, but certainly. Two time doctors, two time doctor, right? Certainly a post doc you know, I love research and I think that that curious mind of mine would, you know, is best placed in research. I'm making a difference in people's day-to-day health, so I'm. Curious as well. I'm, I'm not discarding a post doc, but I think for me, I said to my to my teachers, I don't want to do it now. I want, I want to rest. I want to look out for a job, getting a professional experience, build up my own business and doing this podcast. See how it goes. Yeah, absolutely. And everyone has a different path. I think that's to beat you with a PhD. Like some people come out of their PhD and go straight into an academic post, a lectern post. Some people go into research, especially in science, you kind of go into private public sector research and then you get another cohort that go into the entrepreneurial side of things. Yeah, build their business, build their craft. And yeah, it's that's the beauty of it, that No2 paths are the same. And yeah, it's beautiful. And it is beautiful indeed, because the pitch takes you so it takes you to many avenues that you don't even imagine. It's just not just one specific. I mean, OK, you've researched that specific and you want to it to expand it to to expand it afterwards. But then it can takes you to other to other avenues. It LED you to bio elevate. Absolutely. In the case it led me to PhD lounge, which I keep keep doing it since the since the beginning of my PhD back in 2021. So and I it is how it is now. It has its sense. Exactly. Amazing. So I think it's a great way to wrap it up. And I'd just like to ask you, Katie, any advice to those who are studying for a PhD or want to do a PhD as well as establishing a business when studying or maybe afterwards? Yeah. So I think there'll be hopefully there'll be a lot of people listening who are either considering APHD or doing 1. And the first bit of advice I would say is make sure that you're fascinated by the question, not by the title or the becoming a doctor because those are part of the journey. But you have to be fascinated with that question first because the title will last one day and you have a very much a working title throughout the duration. And it'll change so many times, but the research will last for years. And you know when there'll be mornings that your experiments fail, weeks where absolutely nothing works, where progress feels invisible, and you go back to square one, be two months down the line. So I think if the motivation is just becoming a doctor, it's probably not enough to sustain you, but curiosity is, and curiosity keeps asking one more question. So I think when you're fascinated with the question, that's when you know a PhD might be the right track for you. And I think secondly, importantly, it's don't compare your PhD journey to someone else's because comparison very much exists in research, just like everywhere else. You know, someone publishes a paper before you. If you start together, someone wins funding, someone gets another paper accepted, someone finishes three years on the dot where someone else took nine years. So I think, again, this is my athlete kind of persona perspective coming through. But if you're constantly looking sideways and focusing on what other people are doing, you never really appreciate how far you've come in your journey. And I think research, especially PhD, it's not a race. It's not about just getting it done and getting out the other side. It's a contribution to your research area, a very valuable contribution. And you shouldn't rush it and don't compare because like my favorite quote is like comparison is the thief of joy. If you look in sideways, you never appreciate how far you've come. So that would be, that would be my advice. Focus on yourself and your journey and be fascinated with the question and what you can contribute to your field. Yeah, I think that's a powerful message to to deliver to those who are doing it and are a bit lost in their research, whether it's humanities or STEM. Absolutely. Each one is different and each one, yeah, go on. Yeah. You asked about running a business at the same time, yes. That is the. Second answer. The second answer we got nearly. It's OK. So running a business at the same time, I would say don't wait until you feel ready. That would be like my one big bit of advice. Don't wait until you feel ready because it's likely that you'll never feel ready. And you know, if I had waited to feel completely prepared and ready to start Bio Elevate, I'd probably still be waiting to be honest, because confidence and having that confidence to start doesn't usually arrive before action. So confidence follows action. And you know, every consultation made me better, every presentation improved my communication, every client taught me something new. So you don't kind of just become a confident overnight. You begin the journey and then your confidence builds up and you become confident. And so I think don't feel don't wait until if you're ready to start, start anyway. Yeah. And I think as, as I was saying that everyone has its high hand lows during their PhD. Absolutely. And as you said, start, just get ready. Just you are, if you'll be ready, then you start. Just don't wait, don't wait tomorrow and just start. Do you have any any upcoming projects? Upcoming projects, I think building bio elevate and you know, keep being authentic, keep showing up. I think, yeah, that's, that's the main focus in like the academia or the business side of things. I've obviously got graduation next week, so that'll be incredible. There's a little bit of celebration there. But yeah, in terms of business, keep building the brand, keep helping my clients because first and foremost, that's why I'm doing it. Pipeline stuff, a lot of exciting kind of collaborative opportunities. You'll have to stay tuned, Lewish. And in terms of swimming, I'm actually heading out to, so I've got the Welsh Championships later this month, so end of the month, beginning of August and then I fly out to, I want to get this right. It's either Slovakia or Slovenia and I want to get this right. It is. The capital? Which one of the capital? I can't remember which one it is. If it is Slovenia, it's Liubliania Leo. The other one. The other one, OK, so I can't, I can't remember. It's Slovakia. Slovakia, OK. Yeah. So you can just that part out. Liubliani is the capital of Slovenia, The other part of Slovakia, the Slovakia's capital, I can't remember. Yeah. So it's Slovakia for sure. So you can crop that out where I can remember. I'll restart this segment. I. Think it was Bratislavia. Bratislava, yes. Yeah. Bratislava, yes. That's the one, OK and just came. Out, absolutely. So, yeah, start of the month in the Welsh and then later on in August, I'm heading out to the European Masters Championships in Slovakia. And that'll be the first time kind of representing great British masters to have like the GB kit, the GB hat and just, yeah, being with an incredible group of people of all ages and try to be the best athletes that we can be. And then fresh new season starts in September. Yeah. And we go again, cyclical nature. We love force, we love habits as human beings. And we keep going and. Keep going and I wish all the best for the for the championships and all the. Best thank you to. Come to keep grinding on the on bio elevate. Absolutely. So that's the that's the best of it. I just wish all the best. Thank you very. Much for the rest of for the for the endeavours that are coming ahead and where where they can follow you on social media. And yeah, social. Media Bio Elevate. Yeah, include bio elevate. So Instagram is bio under score elevate and on LinkedIn you can connect me there. That is, yeah, just my name, Doctor Katie Reese on my website. My website has all of my information that you could possibly need if you're interested in my philosophy or becoming a client. Everything is on there and if this did kind of spark something or a message in you reach out. So I'd love to chat. Yeah, I think, I think many, many, many listeners who are tuning into this session probably will, will reach out to you and and now this day and age of gym goers confusing trends absolutely want to guide and find their milestone, I think. The noise, noise and get clarity and that's why I pride myself on. So yeah, to anyone listening, please connect, reach out website, Instagram, LinkedIn, I'm here. And Alice, thank you so much for having me on an honour. I love your work. And you know, you've kind of established this great platform where you have people like me passionate about their stories and their kind of niche or expertise. And you've given us an incredible platform to share our voice and that's so powerful. So thank you to you. Now thank you for the kind words and also thank you for sharing your passion. It's something that I also like the working out, learning about the the body, learning about that in different exercises, reinventing and how can we take care of ourselves. So that's a big thing. So Katie, thank you so much. And for the students and graduates hearing this late night talk, thank you all for tuning in and it's been a pleasure.